Lamed
Lamed Messianic Studies

This interview was originally created on June 13, 2009 as an answer to Associate Pastor Jon of Oak Hill Baptist Church in Austin, Texas. It was an answer to some things covered in a study we were going through about Hebrew origins of the Bible and some of the Feasts that Christians in general really do not know about. I applaud the efforts of that little church to learn about the things of HaShem and bid everyone else to keep asking questions and learning about the things of G-d and what He chooses, because this is how they will learn.

The Jew, The Gentile, and The Law - A personal interview with Marcus from Pastor Jon.
Lamed Messianic Studies at The House of Denning, lamed_at_houseofdenning.com
(Originally created: 20090613)

Ultimately, what is it that we are needing to hear from you in regards to the Law?

The understanding of “The Law to a Hebrew” is not the same as “The Law to a Gentile.”

Can you tell me what the Law is to you?

The Law to me was taught as all that Old Testament stuff and was pushed onto me as things no longer applicable any longer to please the L-rd. The Law to me now is much different since I understand what the Law is to a Hebrew and coupled that with the understanding that we as goyim (or nations, gentiles, anyone not Hebrew) are the wild vines and are not the start of understanding where HaShem (The Name) is at or what He wants from us as the ending of the proverbial plant plan and not the beginning as is in Yeshuah the Root; this of course leaves the Hebrews as the True Vine. Oddly enough, it is the grafted vines at the top of the plant that see the light first – hmm, something to think about right there.

What role does the Law play in your life, your worship?

The Law is a guide to loving, living, and relationship between HaShem and man and between all men (gender neutral).

When you say Law - do you mean the entirety of the Mosaic Law?

When we talk of Law in the Gentile church and in the Brit Chadesha (New Testament, the ch is a hard gutteral h sound), there are two main divisions that we know of. These divisions are the Mosaic Laws consisting of the 613 Mitzvot of The Torah and the Oral Traditions which were the judgments and explanations later about how the Law was interpreted and how to best keep it.

Do you believe in the breaking up of the Law into three segments - of which the sacrificial part is no longer of effect?

The Law as seen by goyim does indeed have three accepted divisions of which I know. These would be the Noachides (again, a hard h sound) of which seven belong to the Nine Utterances (Ten Commandments, as the first two are seen as one in Hebrew understanding), then there are the Mosaic Laws being the writs of Mount Sinai, and then the Oral Traditions which are later spoken about as a burden and of which we are encouraged to cast away so as to work out our own salvation in how to “keep the writ” for ourselves based on our understanding and ability of the written laws that now should be written on the hearts of men. Further, there are some of the writ of the 613 laws that are no longer applicable as they have been truly done away with such as the sin sacrifices and those of war against the Ammonites and the Moabites as the tribes no longer exist. And it is also hard to keep laws of the Kohanim and Levites without a Temple or knowing true tribe lineages. But, just as well, there are many many more that should be kept such as hallowing G-d's Name, believing there is only One True G-d, not using faulty weights and measures, not sleeping around out of wedlock or with family or animals, and a whole host of others that we hold to as conduct and love actions of a true Believer in our G-d as G-d and L-rd.

How do you see Jesus as having fulfilled the Law?

And here we have the most misunderstood phrase in all of Christendom – “fulfill the Law”. To this I must give the following example. If a man is driving on the road with a speed limit of 55 mph and stays within that limit, is he convicted by the speed law? Of course he is not, because he is within the confines of that law and therefore has no need of that law to inform him that he is out of line or boundaries of the law. If the man goes over that limit however, he is now convicted by that law and has necessity to pay the penalty of breaking that law when he is ticketed by an enforcer of that law. (Sounds like the Ruach HaKodesh or Spirit of The Holy here serving as a reminder of the Law to us, does it not?) So, the man goes to court, has to pay a fine, and has no money. His friend comes along and says, “Wait friend, I will sacrifice for you and pay your fine because you cannot. It is a gift to you because I know you cannot repay me. You are now free to go without payment or sentence for that which you should have paid. But, because I love you so much I do this for you; because I would rather have you with me in relationship as a friend than locked up in jail away from me being punished, and I do not want to see you in pain or hardship.” THE LETTER OF THE LAW HAS NOW BEEN FILLED. Payment, regardless of who paid or from where it came has been made and closed the loop in the cycle of penalty to payment or destruction to restitution, or infraction to correction.

And now for the big questions:

• Has the speed law gone away? NO.
• Will the man still be expected to follow the law in the future? YES.
• So was the speed law fulfilled? YES,
  1. because the boundaries were broken and
  2. payment was offered and exchanged for a purchase or recompense was made and accepted.
• But we are expected to still follow it? YES, because those that exemplify the best citizens also have regard for the laws of that citizenry even if the penalties are not paid by them.

Just a little confused over some of your statements in recent weeks - your references to the "threads" by which we enter the temple, . . .

From the Tabernacle onward, all has been a foreshadowing of the coming Messiah and the wonderful things G-d did unto His glory (or evidence of power). At the Tabernacle was one of the first full pictures that we receive of the true coming Messiah and what it means for him to “tabernacle” or “abide” with us. Though there are many more things to study about the meanings of the Tabernacle, the first thing one saw when approaching it to enter were the woven threads of blue, purple, scarlet, and fine woven linens. This in and of itself was the picture of Messiah and the Tabernacle had not yet even been entered.

At the door which one had to pass through was the evidence of the Baptism of the Messiah wherein the burden of sin was taken on and washed away for those who believe in His power to do so. Then there was the Royalty and His capability to take that sin and wash it away with his power (or ability of change). This ability was evidenced between the baptism and the Blood Sacrifice of the payment of the penalty for man breaking the Laws of a Holy G-d as the blue and scarlet mix in color. Then in the fine woven linens was the picture of many lives washed clean and tied together so as to create a giant tapestry of oneness around the Tabernacle where the essence of G-d aboded within in Spirit as He now does within the hearts of those mankind who believe in the atonement of both the water and the blood.

Just as well, if one believes in only the blood, he has not been washed yet and is still living with (or even within) his sin even though he might be saved from damnation. On the other side, you cannot have a washing of sin without a forgiving of sin.

. . . while there is some interest in knowing what it [Tabernacle threads] means, how does the mention of threads in the discussion of a general nature help the rest of us understand where you are coming from. It seems more arcane, and without point, unless you are more able to succinctly make application. We aren't cultural Jews, or ethnic Jews, there is not a connection there that is of common understanding by those in the pew that helps them understand where you are coming from.

So we want to learn how to be like the Most High G-d, but not anything about the PEOPLE HASHEM (THE NAME) HIMSELF CHOSE TO BE THE NATION OF KINGS AND PRIEST SO THEY CAN BE THE KEEPERS OF THE LAW FOR THE PURPOSE TO SHOW THE WORLD HOW TO REALLY LOVE G-D? Really now, come on, let us reason together. How can you know anything about the Jewish Messiah without knowing anything about the Jew He was or the Nation He was born into which G-d chose? I thought to love G-d was to also love the things that G-d loves.

We can discuss at length the intricacies of the Law, but as I read the New Testament rendering of the Law's purposes, it is for the purpose of exposing sin, and for those who are not in Christ. Can it not be a guide for knowing God's will for behavior? Yes, but as for a method of rule-keeping? I would have to say no - even the Israelites couldn't keep it, and God knew it. Jesus could keep it, and did keep it, and in Him we realize the fulfillment of the righteous requirements of the Law for our sake. So, in what sense beyond this does the Law have application that is practical and real in our life today?

Let us not confuse the method of rule-keeping for the purpose of salvation with the rules that HaShem Himself laid out for us to teach us how to be a Holy People not like the commonality. Let us instead strive to remember the Law as the things which G-d said is the way to be most like Him and look at it as a list of the things that please the King. The focus here is the difference between salvation and pleasing the Creator of the Universe. Our salvation is bought and paid for with a payment we could not afford. Our salvation is not under question here. But how we approach the L-rd and King of the Universe is surely in discussion. Because our Redeemer loves us like we are in order that we may come to Him, but He also loves us too much to let us stay the same way as we were before we came than as to after we came and met Him.

Let me just give a few examples of how we can use the 613 Mitzvot of The Torah as a guide for living our lives today by giving examples of the Law itself. The verse references are taken from the New Jerusalem Bible and may be off a verse or two from the KJV.

1. Not to do wrong in buying or selling (Lev. 25:14)
2. Not to commit fraud in measuring (Lev. 19:35)
3. Not to slay an innocent person (Exod. 20:13)
4. Not to indulge in evil thoughts and sights (Numb. 15:39)
5. Not to eat or drink like a glutton or a drunkard (not to rebel against father or mother) (Lev. 19:26; Deut. 21:20)
6. Not to delay payment of a hired man's wages (To pay wages to the hired man at the due time (Lev. 19:13; Deut. 24:15)
7. Not to profane G-d's Name (Lev. 22:32)
8. To love G-d (Deut. 6:5)
9. To imitate G-d's good and upright ways (Deut. 28:9)
10. To save the pursued even at the cost of the life of the pursuer (Deut. 25:12)

I would be willing to bet that some of even these 10 out of the 613 many people have not even heard before. The thing I want to stress here is that before we go about doing away with the Law, first we have to know what the Law is and whether it even applies to our lives or not. As you can see, in the life of a Believer, we know these types of laws as naturally self-evident ways of living. This is just evidence of the prophesy in Jer. 31:31-34 being fulfilled in that the Laws of G-d are written in the hearts of man on fleshy tablets and that His sheep know Him and call Him by Name.

If as a guide, I can understand, as a legalism that creates man-made burdens as the Galatians were faced with and the Ephesians were faced with (1 Timothy) then I believe there is a problem that Paul addressed to the church in Galatia against the Judaizers and with Timothy in his letter to Timothy as it related to those who would use the Law for wrongful purposes.

Here is where I would say again that the Law as you know it is not the Law as I knew it and it is certainly not the Law that a Hebrew knows. Remember, to a Hebrew person that knows the Law, there are five divisions of understanding or types of the Law being:

1. Torah Law – (Mosaic Law, First 5 Books) The 613 Mitzvot of The Torah, also references the whole Tanakh or Old Testament being the Torah, Major Prophets, Minor Prophets, and Writings.
2. Talmudic Law – (Oral Traditions) The fence around the Torah being examples and stories of how to keep Torah Law so as to not be damned or cut off from the nation.
3. Gezeirah Shavah – (Preventative Legislation) The rules intended by the Rabbis to keep from violations of the commandments of the Takkanah.
4. Hagah (Vocal Mediations) References judgments or verdicts and can be tied to regional customs or traditions. [Strong's H1897] Ref. Pesach Haggadah as Passover chant or voicing.
5. Minhag – (Customs or Traditions) Usually a reference to local group or community.

The main relevance for us today is that to the Hebrew Orthodox mind all of these divisions of the Law or understandings of the Law are equally binding therein creating a yolk of burden of an unbearable nature. It is no wonder that the Pharisees, being keepers of The Law, could teach the Law but could not keep the Law, and further that the instruction to the people from Yeshuah was to do what the Pharisees as a group instructed but to not follow their example of actions leading into hypocrisy or personal gain or selfishness. Aside from that, the position of the Pharisee was one of Power and it was very easy to abuse that power which is what some were doing. This does not mean that all Pharisees were bad (in fact many believed in the Messiah) just as one bad diagnoses from a doctor does not make all doctors bad. The chastisement to the “Pharisees” from Yeshuah was to those whom power had corrupted in word, thought, and deed.

Can you now see why I state that “The Law” to a Hebrew is not “The Law” to a Gentile and why we have absolutely no idea sometimes about what The Law is really supposed to be in the contexts it is presented, even in the Brit Chadesha (New Testament)?

If we were to seriously sit down and go through just Torah Law, we would then so clearly see why Yeshuah said that in John 14 that those who love Him do in fact keep His Commandments. And by-the-way, the commandment to Love G-d is Deut. 6:5 and the commandment to Love Neighbor is an extension of Love All Human Beings Who Are Of The Covenant in Lev. 19:18 covering the rest of even those who are not specifically “of the Covenant” as a higher spiritual calling which covers Lev. 19:14-18, Lev. 25:17, Exod. 23:5, and Deut. 22:4 all inclusively encompassing the Laws of Love and Brotherhood as a section unto itself. So the commandments to love G-d and Neighbor may have been new in the mind as to physical and spiritual understanding and application, but they were not new commandments or ideas.

Never question the Word of G-d; always question His messengers and translators.

Marcus L. Denning, Moreh (Teacher) of Lamed Messianic Studies at The House Of Denning, Lamed_at_houseofdenning.com

What is the Law to You?

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